The NMB ruling also allows unions to be replaced by unions by a majority vote of votes casted. But, you still need to collect 50% + 1 cards in order to go to that next step.

Does anyone know AMFA's seniority integration policy? I can't find any info in regards to this issue! Thanks

If you're talking merger there really isn't any for any union. It basically refers to the Alegheny-Mohawk ruling which says to the effect a fair and equal effort will be made. Otherwise it's either up to the union it's self or it's negotiated.

I received the following:

Just wanted to let you know that Frontline will be rebroadcasting our Feb program, Flying Cheap, next Tues, May 25. Pls pass the word along to anyone that you think might be interested.
Also, was wondering whether there are any online forums or chat rooms that airline mechanics use? I'd like to put the word out about the rebroadcast next week and also let people know that we are working on a followup that will look at airline maintenance and the outsourcing trends. We are interested in first-hand experience with quality and oversight in the 3rd party MRO industry.
Welcome any suggestions.
Hope all well on your end.
best,
Rick

Rick Young
Producer, PBS FRONTLINE
202/270-8504

Good to see a mechanic site back up.
As a mechanic I can say that I'm deeply dissapointed with the sellout of a TA that has been agreed to at American Airlines and I will do everything I can to get it killed.

In answer to Curious, AMFAs Seniority Integration policy has always been to Dovetail by seniority date.

Thats the normal policy for merging two unionized groups, since the IBT is at both places, CAL and UAL they would likely do the same.

Bob, the ibt has already stated it will be date of hire with some fences. What type of fences and how they will be implemented, I have no idea. The dictators have spoken, and us peasants will do as we are told.

The TA at AA was shot down by a 2 to one margin, our guys in Local 562 shot it down by 95%!!

We've always been the first to sell out and undermine the profession, hopefully this shows a change of heart by the mechs at AA.

Any word on your contract?

Interesting. Rumor here is because we aren't working hard or fast enough, the company (USAir) has decided to send the next 4 Airbus S checks down to our non-licensed friends in San Salvador.

What cost is cheap? When they come back from there, we mostly end up redoing their sloppy work anyways.

If the flying public really knew.......... or even cared.

"TA" means Transition Agreement or Tentative Agreement? Which one please.

Also please try to explain what is going on at AA. I would like to know.
Thanks.

Keep in mind that AA never filed bankruptcy.

Whats going on over at AA is essentailly a "mop up operation" being facilitated by some of our own. The company is coming back for what they missed in 2003. For everyone under 50 they are taking away our retiree medical. Back in 1989(or 91)we started having payroll deduction to fund our retireee health benifits, we put in half and the company matched the other half. It was a concession, prior to that it was fully company funded. I think we lost LTD at around the same time, the company no longer contributed anything and the union got a company to sell it to us at around $12 per paycheck.

The companys proposal which was accepted by the committee is to have us buy retiree health coverage with our sick time like at SWA and CAL but at the rate of 20 hours per month, SWA and CAL pay 12 hours per month. The company has decided that they will give us 8 days of sick time per year, and has kept the cap on IOD time at 10 days, SWA and CAL get 12 sick days per year and 75 IOD days.

The company admits that on average a mechanic uses 5.1 sick days per year, some may be from sick and some may be from sick used for an IOD where the mechanic used up his 10 days and used sick days until he was fit to return to duty.The company knows that there's no way we could accrue enough sick time to cover us.

The pay changes include increasing Line Premium by $2 on DOS and a 0%, 0%, 3%, 1.5% and 1.5% increases to the base pay, so a 6% increase to base pay over a five year term. We would still be around $10hr less than SWA, not counting Sick time, vacation time, IOD time ETC etc.

The net effect of the increases after inflation is that we will worse off in 2013 than we are now. Not including the many concessions such as the retiree health mentioned above.

Our base wage will be lower in 2013 than it was in 2003.

-No restoration of shift differentials.
-No Pension for new hires
-No $25 payout for each sick day in bank upon retirement
-Permanent "Probation" for Crew Chiefs
-No doubletime except on 8 Holidays (vs the 10 at 2.5X we used to get
-Training done on strait time, even if beyond shift and on day off.
-IOD bank lowest in the industry-10 days
-Sick time accrual lowest in the industry-8 days per year
-Holidays automatically working,
-No Longevity pay
-Least amont of vacation for all steps above the first 5 years, Example employee with 10 years only get 2 weeks and two days vacation, we used to get three weeks after 5.
-No paid lunch even though we are assigned 8.5 hours
-No penalty hour, paid to nearest 10th of an hour in the companys favor
-No uniform Cleaning
-No STD Plan
-Benifits based on companys costs, we subsidize the company for the Pilot and FA caps. Thats right, because they were smart enough to negotiate caps into their plans the costs get added to our and we pay more.

The same guys that are pushing this and telling their members to "shut their pie holes and wait till they see the final langauge" had a "Road Show" last year where they told the members that they would not bring back a concessionary contract, well a few months after that three of the Road Show guys got International titles and all of them voted to bring this POS back!

Tentative Agreement

Left out one of the biggest concessions in this deal. The company wants to at least double the ratio of the number of miles that our feeder airline, American Eagle can fly. As Eagle gets things like First Class and larger aircraft AA cities are destaffed and Eagle moves in, at even lower pay rates. The same union with the same divisive structure represents Eagle so there isnt much fuss from them as this happens (Eagle mechanics recently accepted yet another concessionary contract). Since 2001 the AA fleet has shrunk from 881 aircraft to 610 while Eagle has gone from 276 to 280.Their fleet grew slightly while ours shrank by 30%. Our Facilities guys would be laid off out of some of our class III cities immediately and there's a high probability that many of our ClassII line maint stations would lose mechanics as well. The company stated that they didnt "forsee any job losses" from this however with the high attrition rates at the hubs the smaller stations would probably be destaffed and the class II guys would have to move to one of the larger Hub stations like New York, ORD, MIA, DFW or LAX. So they wouldnt be getting laid off, they would be relocating.

You want oversight?

The Fed's have been crawling around here like roaches. Day in day out. Taking pictures and burning people for stupid, insignificant stuff.

I had one say they can't check out and oversee our MRO friends "south of the boarder" as much as they check us out. The reason why is, he said this is due to the fact that they can only get a 5 day work visa, and after that they get thrown out of the country.

So instead of 5 months around here, they only get 5 days down there.

That's oversight for 'ya.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/waning-star-of-the-air -struggles-as-solo-act/?scp=7&sq=American%20Airlines&st=cse

This is why I am interested in AA.

Copy and paste the link in your browser.

Interesting and scary.

Our negotiators here in Denver admitted the ibt will decide how the two work groups will be dovetailed. Another decision behind closed doors without the memberships participation. Bottom line is the members should be allowed to vote. No more dictating to the members. The ibt is as transparent as a brick wall and it isn't by accident.

That's exactly what the IBT is doing to us at CAL!

I signed my AMFA card today along with a lot of other techs here in MCO.

When comments are posted for some reason it will only show a limited amount of text. If you click on quote you are able to read the whole comment. Hopefully I can remedy this problem.

Glad to see this site back up, sad to see no people here.

I've been rather busy taking part in preparing a Card Drive to oust the dreaded ibt from United. I will divulge more in another week for those interested.

Just fixed the issue where the site was not showing entire posts. Sorry I have been really busy.

Glad to see you back in action.You have been missed

Welcome back GT, I hope all is going well, my wife and I got into a heated agument over the scab that died in MSP. She didn't like my attitude, "Good for him, one less scab"

Glad your back

Al
SDF
UPS

Thanks guys. I have been rather busy on another project. Between that and shoulder surgery I've had my hands full.

Have you been on exnwa.com lately?

Nope. Why?

I'm looking for people who have worked at MRO's such as but not limited to Timco, Pemco, AAR. You can email me at The-AMT@The-AMT.com

It has begun. A coalition of mechanics and related have come together at Continental and United Airlines to oust the ibt. You can visit CAL-UALMechanics.com for more info.

GT, the link does not work.

Hey Al, what's going on over there at UPS?

Go ahead and copy and paste it. CAL-UALMechanics.com

Little has changed here at UPS. Still negotiation a contract that has stalled several times by the NMB. Although they are down to the last few things of course they are the big sticking points. 1)Scope - The "farming" out of work to overseas maintenance facilities. 2) Reto pay 3) health insurance.

If you are interested I can elaborate more if there are interested people.

Could you tell I had just got up when i wrote that post.

Interested in hearing more.
What are you guys asking for? I saw the UPS pamphlet that said the company was offering $46.99.

How much do you guys pay per month for Medical benifits?

Do you have a copy of the Scope language you are seeking?

einstein said:"the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results" workers at united had all this choices and they didn't work,what makes them think that this time around it will work??. i can see the company getting their way with the workers at united.divide and conquer.IAM,TEAMSTERS,AMFA,if i was the company i will introduce a couple more choices just to confuse everybody and dilute the pool,specially now that i am dealing with merger and contract negotiatons,at some point workers need to act less emotional and think more rational to further their cause.

The difference is we have now experienced all three unions. We have now seen what the ibt brings. Lies and deciet. Many fell for their campaign promises and that's the only reason they got in. If anything we now realize how great AMFA was. Many people are kicking themselves including former ibt organizers.

einstein said: "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results"

Wasn't that Ben Franklin?

American Airlines Reductions In Force

Their wording for layoffs.

WARN notices to go out by July 20th with final moves to take place no later than Septemeber 27.

TWU flyers went out to the mechanics at SFO this week.

No Union can save its members it would appear.

UAL Teamsters Negotiations Update that Article IV Classifications of Work & Qualifications has been completed was a lot of words about percentages of words from Continental Contract and UAL Mechanics Contract but no language or what the changes were, just air.

If both sides agreed to it why can’t the members see the completed text, its not like there are a lot of changes in what the definition of what constitutes a mechanic…

Same for the adoption of the grievance language from the Continental Contract that has been reportedly adopted and agreed too.

With some 27 Articles to go I can expect to be dead and buried before it is completed.

There was something back at the beginning about how the IBT had resolved travel for Teamster officers on United, what was the language?

You can’t ask and get an answer from your reps or negotiating team because it’s a secret.

There are alot of problems with the ibt negotiations. Confidentiality agreement that the ibt negotiators must sign. The lead ibt negotiator who is leading both CAL and UAL negotiations has of history of hotel room deals. Just ask Southwest mechanics. Their negotiating website where you are suppose to be able to email the negotiators is a fraud. The negotiators don't receive those emails. The closed negotiations have been used to push the ibt pensions here at UAL without our approval. We have no say until there is a tentative then the interpretation will be questionable. Many times the ibt here at UAL have said they don't want to make the company angry which in my opinion doesn't go well for us in negotiations. Bottomline is we just don't trust the ibt. With all this and their history how can you?

California Layoffs Database: See if your company is planning big layoffs in 2010 Mercury NewsPosted: 02/24/2009 04:26:13 PM PST
California's WARN law requires certain companies with more than 75 employees to provide 60 days advance notice of a plant closing.
City
Company
Layoffs
Layoff Date

LOS ANGELES AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC 7 4/10/2010
SAN FRANCISCO AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC 16 3/13/2010
LOS ANGELES AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC 73 3/13/2010

GT, FYI- A character here at EWR named Ned Kugel has been running his mouth saying that he put you in your place during a recent phone conversation. No one really believes him but he carries on about how he intimidated you with his knowledge of your personal information. This local 210 shop steward is known for tampering with shift bids and bypassing the overtime list procedures for his own personal gain. Hope this sheds some light for you.

There was no phone conversation. There was a couple of emails and yes he tried to intimidate me with personal info. Typical ibt stunt. I responded and he backed off a bit. After a couple of emails I found he was a typical ibt puppet and really didn't have any knowledge of the real world events at United or about AMFA. He presented alot of words but nothing concrete.

Information is power and these kind of guys only know what the ibt feeds them. Don't let these kind of guys dictate to you. Inform yourself and make your own decisions.

Ned dont waste any time only one word comes to mind "Useless" .AS a current employee at cal I see this joker on a weekly basis. Also patiently awaiting my next teamster concessionary contract.

Teamster reps in SFO are telling individual members that the company has rejected outright the WCTPT pension plan.

Have you all noticed it hasn't been mentioned in a long while? Have you also noticed that all those pension plan road shows never happened?

BTW as its heard here in SFO, the local reps have known this for a couple of weeks now, yet no official update.

They hung themselves on the pension they used to lie their way onto the property, and now they know they are all but finished.

United Mechanics you have been LIED to!

There is no "teamster power"

Throw them out NOW!

This is true. I have done alot of research on their claims about their pension and virtually everything they claimed about it was false. Surprise, surprise. One of many lies they have made.

How can something be a victory for both Labor and Management?

By the way rate at AA is 5.1 days per year per mechanic of sick time used.

So with all the fanfare for the elimination of dependibility 14Gs and Levels, has anyone seen a copy of the actual agreement?

UAL doesn't just drop discipline without getting something in return, this deosn't pass the sniff test.

United has been killing off GQ and PV at most all of the small stations for years and reducing staffing at its hubs.

Are GQ & PV going the way of the cleaners and going to loose their jobs only to be offered there jobs back with a private contractor at lower wages and benies?

You can count on it.

What is A GQ and PV?

Building maintenance and the garage.

Hey Bob, I see you guys are not happy with the TWU. Why start your own union and not go with AMFA?
It seems like AMP is AMFA twin. I am curious what happened with you guys and AMFA?

Hey GT,

I heard a rumor that United is bringing back a 747 check line to San Francisco. I checked Google news and nothing has been reported. Have you heard anything?

Thanks.

I have not. I believe the B747 work is done in Korea. I'll check my sources.

United has had internal disscussion about moving some checks from ORD to SFO.

It has been awhile since I have heard any noise about this and SFO is short on hangar space at the moment.

But American Airlines is reducing staffing (layoffs) across the U.S. and that 2 spots in the Super Bay hangar at SFO may be come available.

It could handle one 747 and one other smaller widebody aircraft.

I doubt this will happen but ORD did send two mechanics to work at SFO on a phony 59 day assignment, with a 4 ten hour day schedule and 3 days off (Friday,Saturday,Sunday) and positive space tickets, to home and back.

This even though they have never exhausted the overtime list, before and during this assignment.

This works for United just move your work force to the places you need them regaurdless of cost or consequences.

IMHO

I thouht SFO is half empty, thanks to the farm out.

SFO Maintenance Base is more than half empty, thanks to the IAM's 20% farm out language and the layoffs during the IBT's short time.

Under AMFA we had the largest recall in Uniteds history. And that is with bankruptcy going on to boot.

The shops have been devestated and the docks only moderately used.

B-29 hangar is the most used hangar over all the years having work every day since it was opened.

The other docks have had lengthy shut downs and little work compared to the 1980's & 90s.

SFOMB is down to about 3000 mechanics from about 8000 at its peak.

It will take just about everyone of them to sign a card to oust the IBT.

So we are doomed to a slow death with the current leadership.

I would rather have mechanics representing us than pilots like David Bourne or Don Treichler,
who have betrayed the members time after time.

IMHO

American Airline mechanics turn down the second union (TWU) approved tentative agreement, why?
(working in a shared hangar with American mechanics gives me my point of view)

Because it did not address the huge give backs the company demanded to supposedly keep it out of bankruptcy. The company is offering a top out rate of only $38 an hour after a 3 year contract. But of course with the way they use the RLA it turns into a 5 + year contract. And the main bone of contention was the clause that allows American to close bases.

Being screwed over and over again has taken its toll and maybe they are finally fed up with the crap the airline industry has offered its workers who have sacrificed time and again to save failed management.

Continental mechanics are being played the same way by its management and even its current union. (IBT) They are about to be folded into United’s screwed up culture and management.

They will be expected to learn and work on new fleet types and the mish mash of sub fleets and receive no real pay for it, just like the United mechanics, who top out at $32.50 a hour with no double time, huge health care costs, what a deal for the Continental mechanics. And we are not even talking about the layoffs that come from merging a very old workforce. United mechanics average age is 52 years old and 21+ years of service.
And not able to retire due to pension loss.

I believe Continentals workforce is much younger and I even see they are hiring new mechanics off the street, can you say layoffs.

UAL mechanics may remember the days when United used to negotiate contracts citing Southwest, Alaska and Northwest as similar companies that pay their workers less money for simalar work. Or even in bankruptcy court where United compared the mechanics to appliace repair technicians, but not automobile techs, who are paid more.

But that has now backfired as Southwest tops out at more than $41 an hour and Alaska around $36. (Both Airlines represented by AMFA by the way) Even the Northwest mechanics are paid more, all smaller companies with fixed or single fleet types.
Even the Teamsters use to boast how the UPS mechanics were the highest paid at $51 an hour, but failed to mention part time mechanics.

The SFO team (IBT) told mechanics at a craft meeting earlier this year that there were looking at Frontier wages for United mechnaics, 2-3 dollars a hour more than current wages.

United mechanics were cut from 15,000 to 4000 mechanics since 9/11, a cost savings not passed on to the employees who were left, and those who were left were forced by UAL’s bankruptcy to give back more than 21% pay and benefits for the last 6 + years and loss of pension that will cost them for years to come.

And these doses not even include the phony ESLOP perpetrated by the company and its union. (IAM)

My understanding or belief of the teamster plan and companies (UAL Continental or CON U as some of us like to call it) plan appears to be to negotiate the Continental contract and then force it on the United mechanics.
And why not it gives the teamsters a consolidated control of the memberships and they will take all of the UAL ramp workers to boot.
We will be just like we were under the (IAM) a company union.

Mechanics at UAL have no fight in them for a recent example the company fires a 37 year mechanic for reportedly eating a cookie on an aircraft in maintenance.
The IBT doesn’t seem to be very interest in representing the mechanic as the had issued a joint union/company letter and just to the line mechanics at SFO that anyone removing food from an aircraft acknowledges that they will be fired, the union distributed this offensive letter that required the mechanics to sign the letter and that it would be part of there permanent file.

Sounds like a company union to me.

IMHO

Good luck to the UAL and CAL people on the upcoming approved merger. What ever happens, it's got to be better than what happened here with our merger.

Almost 6 years later, and still essentially 2 separate companies with the pilots and flight attendants not combined, with separate contracts and work rules, and no end in sight.

As for maintenance, basically two separate companies and cultures, consisting of both east and west. 3 separate maintenance systems, ours, theirs, and a hybrid combination of both.

Nothing can compare to the train wreck USAirways has become.

And yes, still the IAM...........

Just think what can happen when like minded professionals look at what they can do to not only protect their craft and profession but what they can do when acting together for the overall good of their craft and profession.

There is no secret formula or equation that has to be written on several black boards lined up next to each other. There is no lost treasure to be uncovered. No lost language to try and decipher.

The tools necessary to become good stewards for our craft and profession have always been right in front of us. Other organizations have used these tools all for the advancement of their respective professions. These tools are called democracy and accountability. These tools are in all of our possession. It is time we used them.

It is our responsibility to defend our craft and profession, not for a select few of our own but for ALL of us. There is no divide in union. In union there is strength. Strength comes in the form of democracy and holding those we elect to a high standard. The IBT is not a union. They are a money collecting organization that cares for a select few, not ALL of us.

Standing up for those who will soon retire, those who are working on retiring and those who will come behind us might seem like a challenge. But unified we can meet any challenge. With AMFA these challenges will be met head on with the tools I just mentioned.

The time has come to move forward. It is time to look past slogans, smoke and mirror answers from the twu. There is NOTHING they can do to change.

Take control. GO AMFA!

The iam thought since they won that 401k match (thru a "me too clause" they were entitled to the match to help fund the iam pension flop. Thanks for the info on the pension flop funding.

The iam taking the "match" made it a bit easier leaving US after 20 yrs.
They robbed my match for 2 weeks before i quit.

Since leaving I had the pleasure to endure another company BK 11, that ended in BK 7. Then 7 months of unemployment till I got hired by a company to be a UH-60 elec/mech.
There is life after the airlines and i'm enjoying it.

I miss the airline people and the aircraft but not the BS.

OK...everyone from every airline complains about their union at anygiven time about how they were "Sold out"! Now everyone is on this AMFA kick like its the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I work with ex-amfa amts from Northwest who laugh at the thought of it. What does all this really mean? Trying to pick from 5 turds to see which one smells the least? I dont get it.

If that was a NWA Mechanic you spoke with then it's a very good chance that person is a scab. Did you ask him if he crossed the line? That would of been my first question before I took what he said seriously.

No, they arnt scabs. I think the scabs are still working there. They work at CAL now after losing thier jobs at NW. After that whole debacle they just say be careful with what you wish for in ref. to getting rid of the Teamsters in favor of AMFA! It just makes one wonder about all these different Unions. I mean, is there really a legit one or are they all crooked?

I have experienced three unions, the iam, the ibt and AMFA. I can say AMFA is by far the best. Everythings transparent and they don't shut you out with you disagree with them. I didn't always agree with them but we respected each other.

I can go on and on but I will leave you with this one important fact, they are the only union not to cross a picket line.

AA Mechanics Couldn't Have Rejected A Much Better Contract (Article)
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/31/243 7273/american-airlines-mechanics-couldnt.html